Correctly identifying time signatures by ear

[ncdrummerdude]

Joe, I recently watched some of your instructional stuff on you tube (hense the site reference!) Particularly the one where you transcribed a tune by DMB from the busted stuff album.
One of the commets was requesting a more in depth explanation of how you can identify time signatures so easily by ear. Your answered by saying that you tube only allowed
500 charactures and to reference the site for a better explanation. You see where Im going with this yet! I have searched the forums and didnt find anything on this topic.
Any help would be appreciated! Also, thanks for such an organized and abundant resource for drummers everywhere!

Thanks,
John

[joe@joecrabtree.com]

Hi John,

Thanks for your message. I had a look for the post and couldn't find it either

Identifying time signatures isn't necessarily easy. Basically it's a case of finding where the loop is and some drummers like to play over that to disguise the join. That can make it difficult to figure out the time signature. Also, sometimes the signature of a song changes. You might have 3 bars of 7/8, then a bar of 4/4, then it might be in 6/8 for a while. Sometimes there'll be an extra 2 beats at the end of a repeat of a verse, or 1 extra beat somewhere else.

When you're transcribing you have to try and figure out what's going on. If a song (or large section of a song) is in a particular time signature you should be able to work it out by ear with a bit of counting. If time signatures are changing all over the place I'd definitely have a pen and paper handy to make notes.

Basically what you're aiming to do is count along with the music. You want your '1' to line up with the start of the groove. Maybe you feel the quarter note and count along '1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4' but you notice that the second count of four seems on the off beat. If it's exactly on the off beat (i.e. you're counting on the 8th notes) then the time signature is likely an odd 8th note signature (3/8, 5/8, 7/8, 9/8, 11/8, etc). Basically, if you clap along a steady 1/4 note pulse you'll be on the beat for one bar, then off the beat for the next bar, then back on it in the 3rd bar. That's because the time signature is odd....

If in the second bar you seem to be clapping a 1/16th note out of time (difficult to sustain), then you're in an odd 1/16th note time signature (5/16, 7/16, 9/16 etc.) These aren't particularly common.

Really you just need to find the subdivision that always stays in time. That is, if you clap quarter notes and they seem to go out of time when you feel like the music is repeating (or the groove is repeating - I'm talking about the next bar happening), then you need to start clapping 8th notes. If they stay in time when the music repeats then you know you've found the bottom number for your time signature. Then you just need to count how many claps you do before the pattern starts to repeat and you have the top number.

If even the 8th notes go out of time when the groove repeats then you need to start clapping 16th notes and use the same approach. That's a little harder because they go past pretty quickly. It's hard to clap that fast and to count that fast. You can either try and hum the song in your head and mentally slow it down, or you can try seeing what the 'remainder' from a bar of 4/4 is.

What I mean by remainder is this.....

4/4 = 16 x 16th notes. Each quarter note is 4 x 16th notes. So, you can count 4/4 as: 1 2 3 4 etc (1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a).

If you're in an odd 16th note signature then there's a remainder from this 4/4. Either there aren't 16 notes in the bar or there are more than 16.

What you're aiming to do is find where the music 'repeats'. First of all figure out if that's after you get to 4, or before you get to 4. For example, if the signature was 15/16 then it would repeat after you get to 4, but it would seem like your next '1' was late. The count would be:

1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+ (no 'a'). You could count this as: 1 2 3 1231 2 3 123, etc.

If it's 19/16 then there are 3 extra notes on the end. Counted as: 1 2 3 4 1231 2 3 4 123

You get the picture. It's difficult to explain in writing. It's really just trial and error. Basically, you know if it's not right because you can't figure out how to count it. Keep trying different things and eventually you'll find something that fits, and that's your answer.

I hope that helps

Joe

[sheldonkreger]

. . .

Really you just need to find the subdivision that always stays in time. That is, if you clap quarter notes and they seem to go out of time when you feel like the music is repeating (or the groove is repeating - I'm talking about the next bar happening), then you need to start clapping 8th notes. If they stay in time when the music repeats then you know you've found the bottom number for your time signature. Then you just need to count how many claps you do before the pattern starts to repeat and you have the top number.

If even the 8th notes go out of time when the groove repeats then you need to start clapping 16th notes and use the same approach. That's a little harder because they go past pretty quickly. It's hard to clap that fast and to count that fast. You can either try and hum the song in your head and mentally slow it down, or you can try seeing what the 'remainder' from a bar of 4/4 is.

What I mean by remainder is this.....

4/4 = 16 x 16th notes. Each quarter note is 4 x 16th notes. So, you can count 4/4 as: 1 2 3 4 etc (1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a).

If you're in an odd 16th note signature then there's a remainder from this 4/4. Either there aren't 16 notes in the bar or there are more than 16.

What you're aiming to do is find where the music 'repeats'. First of all figure out if that's after you get to 4, or before you get to 4. For example, if the signature was 15/16 then it would repeat after you get to 4, but it would seem like your next '1' was late. The count would be:

1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+ (no 'a'). You could count this as: 1 2 3 1231 2 3 123, etc.

If it's 19/16 then there are 3 extra notes on the end. Counted as: 1 2 3 4 1231 2 3 4 123

You get the picture. It's difficult to explain in writing. It's really just trial and error. Basically, you know if it's not right because you can't figure out how to count it. Keep trying different things and eventually you'll find something that fits, and that's your answer.

I hope that helps

Joe

Thanks a ton! I've been wondering about this for a long time. It's surprising how hard it is to get a clear answer, even from very, very skilled musicians.

-sheldon